Rusty blades

[FigureSpins]

Has anyone else seen corroded on blades which has areas which looks like a worm tunnels? Blades are not rusty, but there are clearly visible "worm tunnels" on those areas where you typically see traces from the guards. I am not sure if that is some kind of chemical reaction or why such appears. It takes 2-3 grinding passes before they disappears so they are pretty deep.

I know what you mean - it's the damage that appears before the red rust forms. It "pits" the metal - I've had it happen on stored blades and removing the discoloration/damage to restore the blade requires several sharpenings. 

As long as it's not on the actual edges, it's more cosmetic than harmful.  They have to increase their vigilance in taking care of their skates, but it's not a death sentence for the blade. 

As a skate tech, you should let customer know that you have to take off a lot of metal to restore the blade's appearance quickly.  If you explain that the edges are more important than the sides, they may choose to not have the extra passes done right away.  If you just fix the edges now, and sharpen the rest off later, it will extend the blade life.

[Kaitsu]

This is how "worm tunnel" looks

[supersharp]

I have made some instructional video for the local skaters so that they would take care of their skate guards too. I have also tried to explain them that they should always keep guards until they step in to ice and before they step out from the ice. This even there would be rubber mats on the floors. There is always sand and other dust on the rubber mats. Especially when blades are cold and wet, they "glue" all the dust from the floors and then it is melting in to guards. When you walk with the guards, the dirt will sink in to the plastic and that is hard to remove then. So its not only rust which will cause more friction in to the blades. Listen the sound when I "paint" the blade with marking pen. https://youtu.be/6lSZeOg_3Tc

Subtitles are not in English, but if someone helps me, we can edit also English version either with subtitles or audio track.

Has anyone else seen corroded on blades which has areas which looks like a worm tunnels? Blades are not rusty, but there are clearly visible "worm tunnels" on those areas where you typically see traces from the guards. I am not sure if that is some kind of chemical reaction or why such appears. It takes 2-3 grinding passes before they disappears so they are pretty deep.

The sound of the marker!!!  I want to play that at high volume for the coaches that have told me that the hard guard marks are “only cosmetic”.  I’ve suggested that they test the sharpness of the edge—clearly it is dull on the dark bands and sharper on the underaged areas. Rolling of eyes.


I would be happy to help with an English subtitle version of the video. Then I could require that everyone watch it before I will agree to sharpen their skates.  Like the SafeSport training, it wouldn’t let you go to the next step unless the whole video has played. Kaitsu would get a royalty, of course.

I tell my skaters to wash their soakers and scrub out their hard guards every time I sharpen their skates. Only the adults do it, I suspect…

I also suggest that putting old hard guards on new blades is like wiping down your new car with sandpaper.

[tstop4me]

This is how "worm tunnel" looks

Interesting pattern.  Are there only a few isolated patches?  Or is there a sequence of such patches, nearly equally spaced, along most of the blade, except for maybe near the toepick and near the heel?

[Query]

Excellent photography OF those "worm tunnels"!

Could they be the result of surface abrasion by things other than ice (like dirt, the springs in a blade guard, or maybe even metal filings released onto the surface by an ice surfacer), rather than the result of chemical oxidation (rust)?

Regardless, it is likely that any surface roughness, such as those "worm tunnels", would increase the rate of rust formation, and that it might also increase friction and slow down the blade on the ice.  I.E., they are probably bad.

Anything you do to help your customers take better care of their blades is a good thing.

An EVIL skate tech, or blade manufacturer, would love it that many skaters take poor care of their blades. More frequent sharpening and more frequent blade replacement increases profit. Your willingness to do help them prolong their blades makes you one of the good ones. So does your steps to turn sharpening and blade care into a science, rather than merely an art. 

[Kaitsu]

Interesting pattern.  Are there only a few isolated patches?  Or is there a sequence of such patches, nearly equally spaced, along most of the blade, except for maybe near the toepick and near the heel?

Damaged areas were all over the blade in those areas where blade guards are in contact to the blade, means they were equally spaced. I am sure that it is some reaction which is caused by moisture, blade guard and something else. What I do not understand is why there are such a tunnels.

[tstop4me]

Damaged areas were all over the blade in those areas where blade guards are in contact to the blade, means they were equally spaced. I am sure that it is some reaction which is caused by moisture, blade guard and something else. What I do not understand is why there are such a tunnels.

I had a feeling the regions corresponded to the raised nubs along the bottom channel of a skate guard.  One possible cause (which would need to be verified) of the tunnels:  There is abrasive grit embedded in the raised nubs.

[Query]

I looked over my plastic blade guards. Not much dirt, but a little. I cleaned them out with a brush and water.

The still springs are starting to rust a bit - but that doesn't matter - on my guards (made by Guardog[/urll]), the springs do not touch the blades; all that touches the blades is plastic and air spaces.

It makes no sense to me for any guard to be designed in such a way that the blades touch metal. Even if there were no rust, that must be hard on the blade, as your example shows.

And of course I don't leave the blades in the guards for more than a few minutes, while I walk off-ice - once I take off my skates, I wipe the blades down, & let them air dry.

[tstop4me]

I looked over my plastic blade guards. Not much dirt, but a little. I cleaned them out with a brush and water.

The still springs are starting to rust a bit - but that doesn't matter - on my guards (made by Guardog[/urll]), the springs do not touch the blades; all that touches the blades is plastic and air spaces.

It makes no sense to me for any guard to be designed in such a way that the blades touch metal. Even if there were no rust, that must be hard on the blade, as your example shows.

And of course I don't leave the blades in the guards for more than a few minutes, while I walk off-ice - once I take off my skates, I wipe the blades down, & let them air dry.

Not sure where you got the notion that any one here was talking about the springs (or other metal parts of a blade guard) touching the blade.  If you're referring to my post Reply #31 above, the "nubs" I'm referring to are raised portions on the (inside) bottom of the plastic channel that the blade rests on.  On some guards, the bottom is nominally flat; on others, the bottom has a sequence of raised nubs.  If the nubs have embedded abrasive, you could end up with a sequential pattern of damaged areas, as described. I've seen descriptions of old wooden guards that claim the blade is supported near the toe and heel only, leaving most of the blade clear of contact with the guard altogether; but I can't personally confirm that.

[Query]

Oh, I see. You assume the rust in the grooves came from the blades themselves. A reasonable assumption.

My favorite guards were simple folded leather, held on at both ends leather cord, run through holes punched in the leather. Made for me by Don Giese, who used to be my skate tech. They looked rather classy, so they advertised his service, if anyone asked about them. A cool idea for a skate tech or pro shop.

They were tough enough to walk on for much further than soakers, but they fit loose enough to breath. They also folded to compactly fit into coat pockets, so I didn't worry about theft or accidentally leaving and losing them, as can happen with plastic guards.

I've been meaning to make something similar myself, maybe out of fake leather and nylon cord (cheap but NOT classy), but never get around to it.

[supersharp]

Oh, I see. You assume the rust in the grooves came from the blades themselves. A reasonable assumption.

My favorite guards were simple folded leather, held on at both ends leather cord, run through holes punched in the leather. Made for me by Don Giese, who used to be my skate tech. They looked rather classy, so they advertised his service, if anyone asked about them. A cool idea for a skate tech or pro shop.

They were tough enough to walk on for much further than soakers, but they fit loose enough to breath. They also folded to compactly fit into coat pockets, so I didn't worry about theft or accidentally leaving and losing them, as can happen with plastic guards.

I've been meaning to make something similar myself, maybe out of fake leather and nylon cord (cheap but NOT classy), but never get around to it.

I would love to see a photo of these. I’ve seen the old wooden guards mentioned by tstop4me, very charmingly old school.

[AlbaNY]

I'm totally stealing this position statement.  Never thought about making it all about the guards, although I do tell the kids with Rockerz and Edea eGuards that they're expensive to replace and difficult to clean.

One of my skating families uses a paper towel to wipe the blades before putting on the guards.  It takes a little longer, but keeps their gloves and guards clean.

The Edea guards are easy to clean, no?  I just put them in my dishwasher every so often.   

[Query]

Re: my old leather guards.

I would love to see a photo of these. I’ve seen the old wooden guards mentioned by tstop4me, very charmingly old school.

So sorry. After the blades finally wore through the leather (they were not quite as durable as plastic guards), I threw them out.

I just emailed Don Giese, who made them, but am not sure he is still alive.

As far as I remember they were very simple. I think he took a sheet of tough brown leather, cut it to fit, creased and folded it around the blades, punched holes over top, and threaded leather cords through the holes to stretch lightly back to the top of the blade - I don't recall exactly where it connected to the skate on top, but I don't think I needed to retie the knots every time.

A quick web search yields another leather skate guard, which doesn't look as classy:
  https://www.shorttrackspecialist.com/zandstra-leather-skate-guard

If you want a quick and dirty equivalent, buy tubular webbing from a store that sells climbing gear (e.g., a backpacking store), cut it to the length of the blade, slit open the tubular loop along one edge, punch holes (add grommets if you want to be fancy), and tie it back to the blade with stretch cord. It will still fit in your coat pocket, but it won't look as cool. I haven't tested that, but the material is pretty tough. (It's meant to survive abrasion against rocks, under load.) Since it folds so small and light, you could make an extra or two, in case one wears through.

[AlbaNY]

Those leather ones in the link look pretty neat to me.  The kind you described sound very easy to make if I’m picturing it right, so I’m also sad you never got a photo.

I just noticed chamois leather blade cleaning rags on a site recently, and I’m now envisioning making leather guards with a chamois lining thinking it could help prevent rust.  My only issue with this is that I like my Edea guards but usually have no reason to use them since I don’t walk around and use soakers right away, but also I like to wash the soakers and such weekly and couldn’t clean leather the way I like to.  Either way the idea will have to wait until I’m back home with my sewing machine if I want to try the liner variation stitched nicely the way I picture it.  Perhaps the softer chamois isn’t wise since it might not survive sharp blades as long as thick vegetable tanned hide? 

[Query]

You don't want chamois, as it would probably cut through very fast.

Anyway, chamois absorbs moisture, so I think it would make your blades rust, almost immediately! What you want is something non-water absorbent (e.g., oil the leather), and fit loose enough for air to get in. And of course, you should first dry the blades as best you can, and probably oil them - once you are far enough off the ice not to block the entrance while you do it.

The reason I am hesitant about using the plastic faux leathers you can buy at fabric stores, is that I'm not sure how tough they are, plus they don't quite look real. But reasonably thick leather is harder to find - you may have to order it if you don't have the right kind of store local.

I'm not sure how to crease leather for a clean crease - if you search Google for "folding leather" you see a bunch of links, but I haven't tried actually folding it.

The Zandstra guard whose link I sent you looks pretty simple to make, but I guess most sewing machines would break if you sewed thick tough leather, so you may have to omit the stitches, and only glue on the left end piece, shaped to cover your toe pick. (Or use a sewing awl - I've never used one, but they look simple. Maybe you need a drill to make the holes?) You can substitute cord (leather cord, if you want to be classy) for the strap.

[supersharp]

The Edea guards are easy to clean, no?  I just put them in my dishwasher every so often.   

Dishwasher is a good cleaning method, but I recommend that you follow it with a hot rinse with clean water to remove all of the rinse aid the dishwasher uses. Those chemicals cling to the plastic and can be corrosive to blades.

[lutefisk]

Bill:  you mention Quick-Glo.  Did you use the original (coarse) polish/rust remover or the fine, or perhaps the P3 version of this product?

[Bill_S]

I used the "Original" formulation for those blades.



I used Fine this morning after sharpening brand-new blades for a friend.

p.s. Glad to see you back here. It's been awfully quiet.

[supersharp]

Bill—can you clarify the difference between Original and Fine?  Do you apply this only to the chrome plating?  Thanks!

[Bill_S]

When I use it, it's mostly for the chrome. This morning's sharpening left some finger prints on his new blades, so the Fine took care of that nicely. When blades are old and get the slightly bumpy, hazed chrome look, then I use the Original for faster cleaning. P3 is their finest grade.

Quick Glo is a combination of waxes and fine abrasives. The wax provides a protective barrier to prevent micro-oxidation through the pores in a chrome plating.

This page from Quick Glo probably explains the differences best...

https://quick-glo.com/which-formula-is-for-me/?v=76cb0a18730b

[lutefisk]

Bill:  Thanks for the clarification and the PS!  I had some non-Covid medical issues, but I'm clawing my way back.

[supersharp]

When I use it, it's mostly for the chrome. This morning's sharpening left some finger prints on his new blades, so the Fine took care of that nicely. When blades are old and get the slightly bumpy, hazed chrome look, then I use the Original for faster cleaning. P3 is their finest grade.

Quick Glo is a combination of waxes and fine abrasives. The wax provides a protective barrier to prevent micro-oxidation through the pores in a chrome plating.

This page from Quick Glo probably explains the differences best...

https://quick-glo.com/which-formula-is-for-me/?v=76cb0a18730b

Thanks!