USFSA Freeskate Testing - Sit Spin

[VAsk8r]

Does the sit spin need to be a 90 degree angle or lower to be counted?

[Skittl1321]

Does the sit spin need to be a 90 degree angle or lower to be counted?

No; recognizable sit spin position, but judges take that to mean different things.

[sarahspins]

Does the sit spin need to be a 90 degree angle or lower to be counted?

I've been told no, it merely needs to be a "recognizable sit position"... but obviously judges vary on how they are going to score things.

[Skittl1321]

What's weird is the rulebook actually has the "recognizable" wording on the preliminary test, but not the bronze test.  The adult committee should probably do something to change that, so they are worded the same- that way there is no confusion about the adults having to get a "true" sit spin position.  The preliminary test is way harder than the bronze test (change foot spin, not just backspin; both loop and flip) it would be weird to think the sit spin requirement (which most adults struggle with) could be interpreted as harder.

[Isk8NYC]

I think an email to one of the Committee Chairs would be a quick way to get the update on the table, esp. if it cost an adult a test.
Just mho.

[Skittl1321]

I wrote an email already.  I encourage others to do the same.

Both times I did my test judges praised my sit spin, and it isn't close to 90 degrees. They aren't local judges (we ship 'em in) so at least 6 judges who saw my test were only looking for "recognizable", but I hate to think a judge out there wants a true sit spin from a low level adult!

[Isk8NYC]

Quite a few different "definitions" of a sit spin on the USFSA site/documentation.

From the Glossary:
http://www.usfsa.org/About.asp?id=60

SIT SPIN - A spin which is done in a "sitting" position with the upper part of the skating leg at least parallel to the ice.

From Part I of the Rulebook (2012-2013, page 304)
*For Synchro*

Sit Spin: The skater remains in a sit position while rotating. The supporting leg must be bent at least to a 90 degree angle. The thigh of the skating foot must be parallel to the ice surface.

From the USFSA/IJS Handbook:

Sit – Upper part of the skating leg at least parallel to the ice

From the Basic Skills Instructors Manual:

Sit spin - minimum 3 revolutions: The position to be achieved in the spin is to sit to the point where the thight is parallel to the ice with the body leaning forward, head in front of the skating foot and over the skating knee, and weight balanced over the skating side.  The back should be straight with a sharp angle of torso to skating leg.

From the ISU (via Chowskates' blog):

A sit position is obtained when the angle of the skating leg in the knee is not more than 90°; if this angle is more than 90°, the position is considered as an upright.
If the buttocks are higher than the knee, there must be a GOE Reduction from -1 to -3 (depending on the height and the duration of such position).

[VAsk8r]

I think an email to one of the Committee Chairs would be a quick way to get the update on the table, esp. if it cost an adult a test.
Just mho.

How do you find out who the Committee Chairs are?

For me, my biggest challenge has always been pulling my free leg in so that it's touching the skating leg. It's usually 3-4 inches away. Whenever I pull it in, I lose my position. I'm not at a 90 degree angle either, but I have managed to improve my position significantly in the last few months so the 90 degree angle feels somewhat attainable.

Another skater at my rink assured me she was "nowhere close" and passed the test, but that was several years ago. The last two times I've tested have been with judges who were flown in from all over the U.S., so hard to predict who I'll get.

[Skittl1321]

How do you find out who the Committee Chairs are?

http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?type=leadership&id=25040

[jjane45]

For me, my biggest challenge has always been pulling my free leg in so that it's touching the skating leg. It's usually 3-4 inches away.

Most coaches I know just emphasize the height, but one did mention the free leg needs to be close if not touching the skating leg "for it to count". Is it true? I don't see it in the technical definition that Isk8NYC complied above (thank you so much!!)

[Skittl1321]

A sit spin doesn't need to have the leg touching to be a sit spin- there are a billion variations.  You could do a broken leg sit, for example.

However, I would think if you are going for a "classic" sit spin, and it is a little iffy on speed and position, having it in a nice position, with the knees touching is going to make the judges more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt.  Having the free leg far from the skating leg is sloppy if you aren't intending it to be out there.  (My coaches pet peeve is what he calls toilet bowl sit spins- the legs are touching, but there is an open round space at the top.  But I've seen plenty pass- often with a note to work on position.)

[jjane45]

Saw sit spin discussions on another board... The bronze FS test requires a solo sit spin (not combination spin), would it be a problem if the skater rises up from sit and do a few more revolutions in upright position instead of checking out immediately from sit?

[icedancer]

Saw sit spin discussions on another board... The bronze FS test requires a solo sit spin (not combination spin), would it be a problem if the skater rises up from sit and do a few more revolutions in upright position instead of checking out immediately from sit?

I suppose one could get picky and call that a combination spin - I think most people would call that a normal sit spin.  Not sure what it would get called under IJS...

[jjane45]

I suppose one could get picky and call that a combination spin - I think most people would call that a normal sit spin.  Not sure what it would get called under IJS...

Thank you! I was assured by coach that it's OK but still worried a bit. Barely ever saw people checking out of sit immediately!

[Skate@Delaware]

My sit was a "recognizable" one (haha barely), but I think what really helped getting it to pass was my 5+ revolutions.  I do believe that adults have more leniency than younger skaters.

[fsk8r]

I was told I needed to pull out my sit spin within 2 revs of becoming upright, which always feels too short to me. But I think I read somewhere that the ISU changed the rules so that in coming out of a sit or camel spin, if the upright position was a basic upright it didn't count as a combination. They probably changed the rules again since I read that.