LTS and Owning Skates

[FigureSpins]

I often have students that are obviously struggling in group LTS classes when they're using the rentals.  Our rink has pretty good rentals, but they take a lot of use and abuse.  (Flush the toilet, walk on the metal bleachers, kick the concrete walls, etc.)  An unsteady skater certainly doesn't benefit from bad skates.

I have a sweet teenager (probably around 14) who's repeating Basic 4 and she's so frustrated with the rental skates.  The first pair she was given today were so dull, she was sliding sideways.  I usually carry a sharpening stone to help, but I didn't have it with me today.The second pair apparently have an off-center blade, according to her.  She had to interrupt her lesson time to try on another pair.

She's probably around 5'6" and a little stocky.  For the last two weeks, she's said that she's trying to talk her father into buying her skates instead of renting.  Today, she got him to talk to our in-house fitter but he said that he could get skates for less than the $65 the pro shop wanted for Glaciers.  Sigh.  Maybe they have money problems or she has started and quit activities before - I don't really know either of them.  I really hope he doesn't buy her a pair of no-name skates online.  She's past the level where an edgeless blade is okay.

Just to hold my tongue, I started making a mental list of reasons why it makes sense to buy good skates for a low-level skater.  Here's what I have so far:

1) A $65 pair of skates pay for themselves after two group lesson sessions. 
2) The only piece of equipment you need for figure skating are skates.  Why cheap out?
3) Good skates help the skater master skills faster, allowing them to move up in levels sooner, rather than later.

Any other things to justify the expense?

[sarahspins]

Consistency!  Adjusting to a "different" pair of skates every time you skate can definitely slow down the learning process.  You never know with rentals if you'll get a pair that is broken down or has dull blades or other issues.

[nicklaszlo]

The only piece of equipment you need for figure skating are skates.

It would be so wonderful if that were true...  but she won't need costumes, etc. for a while.

[davincisop]

One really good thing my rink implements is if you pay for both 8 week lts sessions you get a free paor of skates in the pro shop. They specify the ones they can get and they're low level but it's a great idea for beginners.

I know when I began skating I had a pair of no name cheapo skates from the local sports store. My first true pair were used broken in riedells that got me up through waltz jumps. Maybe suggest looking for a pair of used ones being sold?

[fsk8r]

the argument I would use for teens is that their feet have stopped growing so it's not as if they're going to be needing a new pair soon. I can understand using rentals on the little kids as they might drop out or grow out of the boots quickly.
Does the rink have a second hand boot sale? My rink has one which occurs just before and during the Saturday morning LTS classes. The parents see the sale and buy their kids boots. They don't often had adult sized skates (as we don't grow out of them) but when the parents see the price of second hand skates and then compare to the pro shop (which is the other side of the rink) they realise that it's only a little bit more to buy a pair of low end rentals new.
And being shoes most parents won't buy them on the internet as they want them tried on first to make sure they fit. 

[AgnesNitt]

Safety:

I think you could make an argument to parents that while rentals might be okay for skating around in circles, as their child advances they'll need 'real' skates. Without them, the situation can occur where a child falls and is injured. I could see this argument particularly when getting to spins and the beginner's jumps. A broken wrist because the skate slid out from under the child because the blade had no edge, entirely possible.

[Sierra]

Progression is one of the biggest reasons.. you just aren't going to progress in rentals. And chances are if that the parent is unwilling to buy skates, they are also unwilling to let the kid public skate, or skate twice a week. Which also slows progression.

I wore rental skates for ten months. I did a camp, a show and a competition in rentals. My mother's excuse? She was waiting for my birthday. Because it's oh-so-important to present skates to me on my birthday rather than giving them to me when I need them.
Then the skates I got (since they were for my birthday) were ordered online & were not the right size. I wore them for eight months and finally bought my own skates & blades that were the appropriate size and level. I deeply resent being held back, between the combination of skates and zero ice time, for the first year and a half of my skating.

Injury is a good reason too.. my mother twisted her ankle in rental skates.

The only reason I stuck with it, was because I was homeschooled and desperate to get out of the house.
Can your girl pay for half the skates or something? $30 isn't too much for a teen to cough up. I agree, though.. that you don't really know what might be the reasons behind the father not wanting to buy skates.
And skates really are the only piece of equipment you need.. you don't need costumes. Competition is a choice.

[MadMac]

If the rentals don't fit correctly, there is a good chance of damaging the feet. Staying in poorly fitting skates can potentially cause a lifetime of health problems.

[isakswings]

To be honest, it is a lesson many LTS parents have to learn at some point. Dd's 1st pair of skates were Riedell Blue Ribbon skates. They were great beginner skates and I lucked out finding them brand new, in the box and on Ebay for less then 50.00! DD got them for Christmas and was THRILLED. I was excited because the investment was not too much and if she quit I wouldn't be out a lot of money. In 2008, my younger son started skating. He took a few LTS classes and then moved into the hockey LTS classes. He never wore rentals. I bought skates from a friend and he passed basic 1 the 1st time. My daughter did not pass basic 1 the first time and the reason was that she could not stop consistantly. I agree stopping is important, but my guess is that she was also wearing skates that were not sharp! By her 3rd session, she was in her own skates and consistantly passed her classes.

I don't have any good advice. Unfortunately, there will always be parents who don't want to fork out the money for skates. They don't realize that buying the wrong skates could end up costing more then if they spent more money to begin with! Skate swaps are funny. People expect garage sale prices. They don't realize what they are looking at is sometimes a really good buy. I am selling dd's old skates in our swap Wednesday. I am going to put them up for 85. I will go down to 75.. It is a fair price because the blades are Professional blades with tons of life left. They have been sharpened maybe 7 times and actually have a sharp edge on them now(we had them sharpened and then her new skates came in!). New parents will look at her obviously used boots and not realize the value in the blades. Oh well.

As for your student, can she offer to help pay for skates? Maybe if she does that, she will get a better pair. OR you can hope her dad buys ger a pair off ebay that are decent!

[isakswings]

It would be so wonderful if that were true...  but she won't need costumes, etc. for a while.

While it is true a skater will need other things should they continue on, I still think skates in addition to a good coach, are the most important things a skater needs. You can "cheap out" on costumes, but skates you can't. Or at least that is how I feel about it.

[isakswings]

One really good thing my rink implements is if you pay for both 8 week lts sessions you get a free paor of skates in the pro shop. They specify the ones they can get and they're low level but it's a great idea for beginners.

I know when I began skating I had a pair of no name cheapo skates from the local sports store. My first true pair were used broken in riedells that got me up through waltz jumps. Maybe suggest looking for a pair of used ones being sold?

Hmmm... not at bad idea! Of coarse at our rink, for 6 weeks of LTS, lessons are only 40.00. I bet they could not incorperate the cost of skates into the cost of lessons. I wonder tho, if they could offer a discount on skates if you buy a pair when enrolled in LTS?

[AgnesNitt]

I hate to parent bash here. But do boys in hockey go through this too? Do parents say "I'm not getting you hockey skates, they're too expensive."  It seems whenever I hear this discussion, it's always about girls.

[MadMac]

Hmmm... not at bad idea! Of coarse at our rink, for 6 weeks of LTS, lessons are only 40.00. I bet they could not incorperate the cost of skates into the cost of lessons. I wonder tho, if they could offer a discount on skates if you buy a pair when enrolled in LTS?

I've seen several rinks that offer a 10-15% discount in the pro shop for skaters enrolled in classes. It's a real win-win for all parties.

[MadMac]

I hate to parent bash here. But do boys in hockey go through this too? Do parents say "I'm not getting you hockey skates, they're too expensive."  It seems whenever I hear this discussion, it's always about girls.

It must happen to hockey boys too, but I agree, the discussion always seems to be about girls.
Not long ago I was selling a pair of hockey skates. A boy about 11 or 12 yrs old called to buy them. He had saved his own money for the skates, but his parents would not drive him 12 miles down the road to meet me at the rink so he could try them on.  The skates were brand new, worn only twice, and I had priced them at 1/2 my purchase price -- talk about parents not realizing what a bargain they are looking at! I felt bad for the kid, but maybe there was more to the story . . .

[Query]

A local pro shop allows trade-ins on hockey equipment for kids. You buy the first set of equipment from them, then you get a big discount to trade in to larger equipment. I don't know of any figure skating programs like that, though one store lets skaters sell their used skates to other customers through a card file program.

Many rental counters let you ask for a particular numbered skate pair, for consistency. You have to get there early enough no one else gets them first.

You can deal with off-center blades, and varying fits, if you bring your own cheap insoles and learn to adjust them by adding tape. Balance is as much about where you have the strongest contact with your feet as about where the blade is mounted. I've also stuffed paper towels inside strategic places inside my socks, to create the same affect as adding tape. But it takes time and practice to get it right, and is a pain in the neck.

It is much easier to have your own skates to play with and take care of. As long as you get skates of reasonable quality - a junky pair may be worse than rentals. I think you can get decent low level skates for $75 - $150 - around the same cost as a set or two of group lessons, plus extra skate session cost. Add in the cost of driving to the rink, and the students' own novice level skates aren't too huge a factor of what it costs to skate. It makes a cool present, which may be cost effective to the parent in the end, if the student keeps skating.

Do kids really put rental skates in the toilet? OMG. Some kids are... not very nice.

[davincisop]

I deeply resent being held back, between the combination of skates and zero ice time, for the first year and a half of my skating.

Sierra, be happy you have ice time now. Don't dwell on or be "resentful" of something you couldn't control. I could do the same thing by saying I deeply resent not having an ice rink locally until I was 10, but instead I look at it like "I'm incredibly lucky I have a mother who was willing to put me in lessons when I was 11 and continue to support my efforts even though I'm not very advanced." She could have just said "Why do you want to skate? You're not going to the Olympics so it's just a waste of time". Instead by her being willing to take me to the rink even just once a week (which for a while was all it was) I found a sport I deeply love. Now I pay for it myself and hope I don't get hurt doing it. But I also look at it now that I'm incredibly lucky to have moved somewhere where the rink is 10 minutes from my apartment rather that 30-40 minutes away and that I'm able to get over there as often as I do even if my practices suck sometimes and I have to fight crowds. So be thankful you have ice time and you have good skates now and that you're progressing now as quickly as you are. Your experiences when you were younger should make you feel better now that you're getting up in levels.

Ok, stepping off my soapbox now.

[Query]

Hmmm. the original poster wanted more reasons to buy your own skates, which I ignored, except for saying it might be a cool cost effective present. Sorry.

Everyone knows the main reason is you can do a much more careful job of making it fit.

I once broke a leg skating on skates that didn't fit. There were other factors, and they were my own (bought used), but the point is, ill fit skates can cause injury. So can skates that are too worn out to provide proper support.

There is also some probability of getting foot diseases from used skates. In most sports, experts say you should never use someone else's foot gear. (Of course, most sports have cheaper shoes.) OTOH, a rink wouldn't want you to point this out to parents, who might never return.

At some rinks, waiting in line for the rental counter takes a lot of time, and they open too late. You might have to miss the beginning of the session, which is often the least busy part, with the cleanest ice. You might be late for your lesson.

When a lace gets twisted (between holes), it bites into the fingers when you pull on it. Some people even get bloody fingers, which is not something I want to think about, in terms of germ transfer. With your own skates, you can take time to re-lace it flat once in a while.

Perhaps learning to take good care of one's own equipment teaches good values (a bit abstract).

That's the best I can do for justifications.

[lindafmb]

Biggest reason to get your own skates? Pretty much everyone's alluded to it without directly coming out and saying it. Skating is a kinesthetic sport - to get good, you need to know how the elements "feel" when you do them correctly. If you have improper equipment, you won't develop that kinesthetic awareness.

I've been skating for five years now, and spent the first three or so trying out three separate pairs of skates before settling on my fourth pair, which fit properly. I've been wearing those for the past two years, and have already replaced the blades in the last six months--but I skate A LOT. Between better equipment and my back surgery, my skating has improved dramatically in those most recent two years.

Examples:

1. The first five times I tested my bronze moves (prior to 3/2008, when I finally passed it), I was skating on boots that had no support and blades without rockers...and I thought it was JUST ME and that my 3-turn technique must be uber flawed if I scrape that much. And, I could not spin for more than three revs to save my life.

2. The next time I took that moves test, I took them in boots and blades similar to what I have now (Harlick high test, my latest have an oversized toe box, MK parabolic blades), but they were a width size too narrow. I had way better edge control in them and I passed the test, but I developed bone spurs on my pinkie toes and the toes next to them. And spinning was still a challenge.

3. When I finally got skates that fit me, I could definitely start to feel my edges even more, was able to better feel where I was balanced on the blade, got my forward and backward 3s clean, and low and behold, I can now spin and maintain more than a few revs.

Equipment matters.

[sarahspins]

The first five times I tested my bronze moves

This is somewhat unrelated to this thread, but it was something I was wondering about based on the other thread.. I've never heard of anyone re-trying a test 5 times.  Did anyone (coach, etc) suggest that you might not have been ready to test, or that your boots/blades were contributing to why you weren't passing?

Sierra, be happy you have ice time now. Don't dwell on or be "resentful" of something you couldn't control.

I agree.. I could be angry about the limitations I had in my early skating life, or I can be thankful that I got to skate at all, and that I can continue to do so as an adult.  I took a significant break through my 20's because "life" got in the way but I have no one to really blame for that but myself.

[Sierra]

Sierra, be happy you have ice time now.

You're totally right  At least I eventually got ice time. If I had continued the once a week group lessons, I'd've probably quit or drifted out eventually. Or my mother might have drifted me out.

From a different perspective, if I had gotten more ice time much sooner, that would be just that much more time that I wouldn't be able to drive myself to the rink or be old enough to maybe get a job. 3 years of waiting versus 2 years.


 
I've seen people walk up into the bleachers with rental skates on. Bypassing the bright yellow, huge words on the steps saying "NO SKATES". And totally destroying the blade in the process.

[davincisop]

Dont forget the busy season of winter when skates break bc rentals are understaffed and people throw them on a pile on the floor and there's not enough time to sharpen them.

The benefit of skates at any age that fit is progression will be better. I see for young kids not wanting to get new skates bc they will grow out of them.

[lindafmb]

This is somewhat unrelated to this thread, but it was something I was wondering about based on the other thread.. I've never heard of anyone re-trying a test 5 times.  Did anyone (coach, etc) suggest that you might not have been ready to test, or that your boots/blades were contributing to why you weren't passing?

Ironically, the very first time I took it was the time it received the highest score, prior to when I finally passed. I took it on the very next test session after passing my pre-bronze tests, so I'd only been skating for a little over six months at that time. That time, I was definitely not ready.

But certainly the other times, I was. One retry was due to putting my foot down (nerves) on one of the power-3s, so that was my bad, but several of the other times, both my primary and several other coaches at my rink were surprised that I didn't pass. But this is very common at my rink--not at ADULT BRONZE level, usually, but certainly for the kids. It has, unfortunately, been my testing journey. I've only passed four of nine on my first try. I compare it to a shooting range, and kind of feel like I've knocked out all the easy targets - I've done the lowest tests in freestyle, figures, and solo dance (altho I could still test dance partnered too). Maybe I'm arrogant, but I do think I'm better than pre-bronze, seriously.

No one ever mentioned my skates, though. And I am a little more kinesthetic than others, perhaps. I attribute it to having very poor eyesight.

[Sk8tmum]

a) Canadian clubs don't offer rentals. So, not an issue. You have to supply your own skates, and, as of May 1/11, a CSA approved Hockey Helmet is now mandatory until quite high up in our LTS (Canskate) program.
b) The need to buy your own skates leads often to the "bargain skate" phenomenon: the $15 skates that don't work well, or the $35 pair that convert to roller blades. Neither of which options work well - the skate option or the roller blade option.
c) Our largest skate store - in Toronto - does do a figure skating buyback, and sells the second hand ones on. They do a great job fitting the second hand ones.
d) Hockey parents do cheap out on skates too. They also hand them down from kid to kid, regardless of whether they fit properly.


It's not just the "you need to buy your own skates" that is an issue: you also have to have them buy the right skates that fit properly. Somebody can go out and buy expensive skates that are the wrong size or type, and you're going to get no further than in a pair of battered 10th-hand ones, or your rentals ... and you may also wreck your feet with new skates that are the wrong ones, same as the worry about the wrecking of feet with the rentals. 

My Rant:  $150 Zuca Bag containing a $85 skates "Oh, Skates Are So Expensive, How Do You Afford Them - We Got Such a Deal!" My suggestion: Afford them by avoiding the Zuca bag and putting the money towards a decent pair of skates ... the cute Zuca bag + cute dress phenomenon seems to be quite common here, and often are accompanied by the cheap skates ... sigh ...

[Kim to the Max]

My Rant:  $150 Zuca Bag containing a $85 skates "Oh, Skates Are So Expensive, How Do You Afford Them - We Got Such a Deal!" My suggestion: Afford them by avoiding the Zuca bag and putting the money towards a decent pair of skates ... the cute Zuca bag + cute dress phenomenon seems to be quite common here, and often are accompanied by the cheap skates ... sigh ...

We have that with out LTS kids too...and it always amazes me...I would much rather have a cheapo bag and good skates than something that is expensive and skates that I can't do anything with!

[sarahspins]

the cute Zuca bag + cute dress phenomenon seems to be quite common here, and often are accompanied by the cheap skates ... sigh ...

I see a lot of that too... I find it incredibly ironic.  People think the $100 boot/blade sets are "expensive" yet they have no problem dropping more than that on a bag!  I'm sure they royally freak when they realize a decent boot/blade combo once you're past the all in one skate sets are $500 at the low-end and only go up (way up!) from there.

IMO no one truly "needs" a Zuca.... they're nice, and I admit I do love mine, but I could just as easily use any cheap backpack to haul around my (not cheap) skates  I had the skates well before the Zuca though.  In fact I don't think I ever had a legimimate skate bag "ever" before the Zuca.. I just used a backpack, and when I worked at the rink I had a locker and I just kept my skates there... the only time I brought them home was to sharpen them (either the profiler or taken to my sharpening guy).

That said, my kids all have their own skates... and they're not even in LTS and none of them have really expressed an interest in taking classes (the two older ones do take gymnastics though).  I sometimes bring them with me to skate public, and I hate the idea of them trying to skate in rentals after watching what a hard time my oldest had with them (EVERY pair in his size was broken down).  My youngest at only 3 has both inline hockey skates (they're SO cute!) and real figure skates.  Having the inlines at home has really helped him on the ice... but then again he is only 3 and his coordination is still catching up to what he thinks he can do.  He asks to skate almost every day, and he's gotten much better in just a few months - he used to do nothing but fall down, and now he can skate around the house.