Body Awareness

[SK8N]

I have little to no body awareness.  I have never danced & have skated for 5 years now.  It's only been within the last year that I can tell if my hip is open or closed.  I still can't tell if I'm dropping my hip.  I'm completely unaware of my arms and shoulders.  This is really killing me on my spins because I can't tell if my shoulders are square or I'm dropping my hip.  It's really hard to correct something you can't feel.

I know it's possible to feel it, because periodically I'll have an A-Ha moment where I'll feel the body awareness kick in.  I can tell if I'm dropping a shoulder or hip.  But then it' gone by next practice.

Has anyone else had this problem?  Ideas to help with body awareness?  I can't take dance classes because of my erratic schedule.  They just don't offer them at 6am or 10 pm.

[irenar5]

I think some people are born with better body awareness, kind of like perfect pitch.   A lot more, though, take work to get it developed.  What worked best for me was taking a video when I skate, then playing it back in slow motion and  determining what I am doing wrong (which hip is dropped, where the arms are, etc).  A lot of the correction skills you can practice off ice (such as spin positions and the hip, upper body position on turns, so on).

The next step is doing it on ice and getting immediate video feedback, then correcting it right on the ice and checking again with the video. 
I also have to work on body awareness quite a bit- only video helped me see just how much lower I had to go in a sit spin, how much to lean back in a layback, where exactly the hip drops in a spin and travelling starts.  My coach told me all those things before, but I was convinced that I was doing them :-)
I use an ipad for my video projects- great to see right on ice on the big screen and for slow playback I have an app called VideoPix- it is only 99 cents  and well worth it!

[fsk8r]

I'm trying to correct poor postural habits with my coach at the moment. I can't feel or tell what I'm doing wrong, although when shown on video I can see it. The one thing I've found which I can just about do is mimic. If my coach skates in front of me with the correct posture, I can effectively mimic. With much perserverance and repetition on his part, the small corrections are beginning to become habit. But we've gone completely back to basics and spend a lot of time working on forward and backward stroking to get those correct so we can go back to putting the dances back together. I seem to be getting closer to getting forward stroking "correct" but backwards I'm struggling and I can't skate backwards and mimic the coach's body position if they're skating forwards.

[rosereedy]

For as long as I skated, never could I tell if I was dropping a hip, arm, etc.  I stopped skating for several years and got into fitness.  I tell you the one thing I found that helped with body awareness is working out with weights and doing P90X.  Now that I am back skating, I can really feel what I am doing for once and it has really helped my skating improve.  After being off the ice for 5 years, I came back landing axles and 2S.  Doing something that forces you to think about your body, such as weight lifting, etc will really help.  At least it did for me.

[sarahspins]

This probably sounds like an insane way to go about it, but I have found that my body awareness has improved as my balance and reaction time has improved.  We bought my oldest son an indo board for his birthday and the more time I spend on it (just playing around), the more I actually notice the difference in my skating.  Not only can I feel exactly what I need to change when my coach points something out (usually I know before she says anything), but because I've been building up all kinds of little muscles not only in my legs but also my core, I feel like I do a better job of acting on what she says to do because I've been using those muscles more off-ice.

[drskater]

I agree with all the above posts! Figure skating has improved my body awareness tremendously. I DO think it's more difficult for adults because we've had many many years of walking and moving around without much thinking. To a certain extent our brains have become "hardwired" (as opposed to kids whose brains are more plastic) and it really takes tons of effort to experience and control your movement in new ways. So, in this sense, figure skating is not only good for our bodies it's great for our brain health too!

[Sk8Dreams]

I use bean bag lizards to help my students feel where their arms are.  Because they are about 8 inches long, the bean bags will "sit" on the backs of the student's hands.  I then challenge the student to something possible, but difficult for him/her, such as skating to the blue line without dropping the lizards.  I've seen many thrashing arms calm right down.  I know you can't do that in a spin, but just practicing with something similar on your hands as you skate could help build your awareness.  You could also try light velcro wrist weights for spinning.  Just feeling the weight of something on your wrists might help.

One technique you can do at home is to stand in front of a full length mirror and model the pose you are having trouble with (open right hip, for example).   When you have the right pose, take a few moments to think about how it feels.  Repeat until you think you really can feel when you have it right.  Then test yourself by standing in front of the mirror, but not looking until you feel you are positioned properly.

[fsk8r]

I use bean bag lizards to help my students feel where their arms are.  Because they are about 8 inches long, the bean bags will "sit" on the backs of the student's hands.  I then challenge the student to something possible, but difficult for him/her, such as skating to the blue line without dropping the lizards.  I've seen many thrashing arms calm right down.  I know you can't do that in a spin, but just practicing with something similar on your hands as you skate could help build your awareness.  You could also try light velcro wrist weights for spinning.  Just feeling the weight of something on your wrists might help.

One technique you can do at home is to stand in front of a full length mirror and model the pose you are having trouble with (open right hip, for example).   When you have the right pose, take a few moments to think about how it feels.  Repeat until you think you really can feel when you have it right.  Then test yourself by standing in front of the mirror, but not looking until you feel you are positioned properly.

Following from the idea of something on your hands when spinning. Do you normally wear gloves? Try spinning without them. The change to bear skin will make you very aware of where your hands are, partly because you'll see flashes of flesh and not glove colour, and partly because you'll get the cold air sensation on your hands.

[Bunny Hop]

I know it's possible to feel it, because periodically I'll have an A-Ha moment where I'll feel the body awareness kick in.  I can tell if I'm dropping a shoulder or hip.  But then it' gone by next practice.

Oh yes, I recognise that phenomenon. About six months ago in a lesson I FINALLY felt what it was like to be able to spin and could see how people could keep spinning beyond 3 revolutions. But it was gone again by the next time I skated, and I haven't seen it since.

I think part of the body awareness thing is that when you skate, and particularly when you're learning something, you have to concentrate on making sure so many parts of your body are doing the right thing at the same time, that some things inevitably get lost. So you forget what, for example, your arms are doing because you're thinking about your feet (which also aren't necessarily doing the correct thing either of course!  )

[phoenix]

Personally I think your best bet would be to take either yoga or dance, something where you are in front of a mirror so you can *see* exactly what your body is doing, and a small enough class, or privates, where you get a lot of individual attention.

You may think it sounds weird, but Latin style ballroom calls for very specific body/hip movements, & when I was training in that discipline we spent hours in front of the mirror as I learned hip positions. It really helped my skating a lot & I can isolate small areas of my body much more easily than I could before.

[Live2Sk8]

Referencing BunnyHop's latest post: you have to concentrate on making sure so many parts of your body are doing the right thing at the same time, that some things inevitably get lost


 I tell my coach all the time that there are too many body parts to keep track of!

[I couldn't figure out how to copy/paste the quote like everyone else did, sorry]

[SK8N]

Thanks for all the great ideas!!

I'll start by videoing.  Maybe playing back in slow motion will help.  I currently do weightlifting along with some balance exercises.  Maybe the awareness will get better as I get stronger and better balanced.  I like the lack of gloves and wrist weights ideas.  I'm usually fairly aware of my hands because I can see them.  It's more the shoulders, back and hip, but I'll try anything at this point.

I did try yoga, but only went to a few classes.  The problem with classes is my schedule is tight and it's hard to commit to a certain time when the classes are offered.  That's why I'm glad freestyle sessions are early in the morning, because I'm almost always available early in the morning or late at night.  Maybe I'll try yoga again when my schedule calms down.

[Doubletoe]

I've had to learn to identify bad body positions by looking at the effects they have on my edges, spin tracings, etc. I really don't feel when I'm dropping a shoulder, pitching forward, not bending enough, etc., so that's where a good coach can come in handy.  When I do something weird that I'm not aware of (usually during a spin), he'll tell me what I'm doing, then I'll try the element again, with an awareness that I'm doing it.  He'll also show or tell me what is happening as a result, so that I'll know if the spin travels like that, I probably dropped my shoulder, or if my flying camel lands me on my head again, I probably opened up my free hip.    In the process of fixing these things consciously, I've also learned where I'm supposed to feel tension in my body when I'm in the right position on things like axel takeoffs, so I guess it has gradually been improving my body awareness, too.

[icedancer]

I've had to learn to identify bad body positions by looking at the effects they have on my edges, spin tracings, etc. I really don't feel when I'm dropping a shoulder, pitching forward, not bending enough, etc., so that's where a good coach can come in handy.  When I do something weird that I'm not aware of (usually during a spin), he'll tell me what I'm doing, then I'll try the element again, with an awareness that I'm doing it.  He'll also show or tell me what is happening as a result, so that I'll know if the spin travels like that, I probably dropped my shoulder, or if my flying camel lands me on my head again, I probably opened up my free hip.    In the process of fixing these things consciously, I've also learned where I'm supposed to feel tension in my body when I'm in the right position on things like axel takeoffs, so I guess it has gradually been improving my body awareness, too.

This is so true - a good coach call tell you exactly what you need to do to make the element (or edge or whatever) work just by changing your body position a bit.

I have also found over the years that yoga, pilates, etc., have helped with body awareness as well.  I also have a meditation practice that although it does not tell me whether my hip is up or not, has helped with just overall body and breath awareness.

Working with a physical therapist can be helpful.

Maybe visualization?

It is definitely a journey!

[chowskates]

Maybe it helps to focus on awareness off-ice. I attended an introduction to Pilates session last week and while the instructor talked about core strength exercises, I could tell that a lot of it was actually focusing on awareness of your own body and alignment. I'm certain that will help with awareness on ice!

[fsk8r]

I've had to learn to identify bad body positions by looking at the effects they have on my edges, spin tracings, etc. I really don't feel when I'm dropping a shoulder, pitching forward, not bending enough, etc., so that's where a good coach can come in handy.  When I do something weird that I'm not aware of (usually during a spin), he'll tell me what I'm doing, then I'll try the element again, with an awareness that I'm doing it.  He'll also show or tell me what is happening as a result, so that I'll know if the spin travels like that, I probably dropped my shoulder, or if my flying camel lands me on my head again, I probably opened up my free hip.    In the process of fixing these things consciously, I've also learned where I'm supposed to feel tension in my body when I'm in the right position on things like axel takeoffs, so I guess it has gradually been improving my body awareness, too.

Why is it when I get the tension right I can't actually breathe because the tension is created by holding my breath?! I have to go through this stage to come out the other side with a whatever that I can breathe while doing.

[taka]

My body awareness sucks... I have no idea what my body is doing when I skate! I can't even tell which foot I've literally just done something on half the time if we are working on it in both directions!

Also if I concentrate on fixing something like my feet I utterly forget to do things I normally do just fine with my arms! I can only guess what has gone wrong since my coach (who has the patience of a saint! :angel ) has pointed it out so many times! My upright spins travels... my free knee is not in front. My salchow spins... I need to check properly with both arms! It is often a slow, tedious process for both my coach and I.

A further complication is that I skated as a child for several years. Sometimes this is great - I can occasionally pick things up again quite quickly. Frequently not though... I often used to do the more advanced version of things I simply can't do even the beginner version of now. I have to go through a whole, longwinded process of taking it to bits and re-learning it, piece by piece, from the beginners version upwards. Even then it often still feels "off" despite me doing the beginners version / drill correctly! - Which doesn't help at all! I have to rely on my coach's feedback a lot.

My backspin for example... can't really get any proper entry we've tried to date to actually spin. However, while trying to fix my arms in my loop (thus accidently landing it on the flat... What do you mean arms AND legs at the same time?  )... we discovered I can backspin and could keep the spin going for 2 or 3 revolutions! It felt really familiar! I just can't get the spin going in the first place by conventional routes! :bash

Coach tried videoing me for the 1st time last week and I think that really has the potential to help me a lot! Actually being able to see what my problem is (and compare it to her correct version) seemed really helpful!

[SK8N]

I really don't feel when I'm dropping a shoulder, pitching forward, not bending enough, etc., so that's where a good coach can come in handy.  When I do something weird that I'm not aware of (usually during a spin), he'll tell me what I'm doing, then I'll try the element again, with an awareness that I'm doing it.

My coach gets so frustrated with me over this.  For example, she'll watch me & tell me I'm dropping my shoulder so I try it again, trying not to drop my shoulder.  She'll tell me I'm dropping my shoulder again.  This keeps repeating until I luckily get it right.  Unfortunately, I can't feel the difference between my shoulder being up or down. 

What do you mean arms AND legs at the same time?  )...

Yep, same problem here.    When I do finally stop the shoulder dropping because I'm paying such close attention to it, I forget about where my legs need to be.

[taka]

A further complication is that I skated as a child for several years. Sometimes this is great - I can occasionally pick things up again quite quickly. Frequently not though... I often used to do the more advanced version of things I simply can't do even the beginner version of now.

My backspin for example... can't really get any proper entry we've tried to date to actually spin. However, while trying to fix my arms in my loop (thus accidently landing it on the flat... What do you mean arms AND legs at the same time?  )... we discovered I can backspin and could keep the spin going for 2 or 3 revolutions! It felt really familiar!

Apologies for quoting myself... I was thinking about what I wrote above, while on the way back from work, and something potentially very important occurred to me...   &) 

- The backspinny loops occurred when I was working hard on fixing my arms.
- This was also the point at which we were working hard towards my jumps getting more spring and height.
- When working on fixing the above (the arms particularly)... I sometimes utterly forgot about what my feet were doing.
- ... at which point my coach had to remind me frequently to lift my non landing (left) leg and have it alongside my right calf.
- landings are the biggest thing wrong with my jumps.
- Within a few days of the backspinny loops I managed my 1st "proper" loops that really sprung up and actually had flow on the exit too. This has been the only occasion as an adult that they've felt "right" and very, very familiar. (I did 4 or so within 5 mins!) Sadly this wasn't in a lesson and I haven't been able to replicate that feeling again.
- The free foot on landing in those familiar jumps seemed more swooshy somehow, rather than just jump up and then out upon landing.
- my flip takes off and rotates fine, I just 2 foot the landing of that every time too and have the same left leg position issues into landing as the loop.

What occurred to me on the bus was...
- I 1st learnt the loop when I was 6, maybe just turned 7. And i quit skating when I was 10 and a half.
- When I quit skating I was working on lower level doubles, up to and including double loop.
- Presumably I was capable of hitting a decent legs crossed at the ankle, backspin position in the air or I wouldn't have been able to be working on these. My axel was clean and test ready and had been for a while.
- Now, when I jump up and rotate 360 degrees and land on one foot in landing position off ice I automatically cross my legs into that backspin position in the air (presumably as I was drilling that a lot as a kid trying to get doubles). It feels odd if I try to do the same without crossing my ankles.
- when I landed the backspinny loops - my left (free) leg position must have been amenable to spinning (ie my weight in the right spot over my axis) or I wouldn't have continued to spin.

Question... Was I concentrating so much on my arms and getting much more height that I just automatically defaulted (thanks to old, old muscle memory) to crossing my legs during those wonderous jumps?... Entirely without noticing?

It'd explain why they felt so right... many years of crossing those legs and coming out of that into landing position! It'd explain the swooshiness of those lovely jump landings too and why my normal jump landings never feel right! 

I'm sooooo looking forward to my next one to one lesson, when I can talk to my coach about it! Can anyone lend me some extra jumping courage please... I think I'm going to need it! 

Apologies for the thread hijack!

[Doubletoe]

Why is it when I get the tension right I can't actually breathe because the tension is created by holding my breath?! I have to go through this stage to come out the other side with a whatever that I can breathe while doing.

Ha ha!  That must be why I still hold my breath going into axels!