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41
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by Query on March 10, 2024, 03:24:41 PM »
The Pro-Filer figure skating kits had two tools - one with a diamond dust coarse grit, one with an (aluminum oxide??) fine grit, which can be used instead of polishing. The hockey kits only had a coarse tool.

At a guess, your sandpaper is quite coarse - maybe as much or more so than the coarse stone in the Pro-Filer kits.

What grit sandpaper did you use? Did you consider switching to a fine grain after the initial sharpening?

It looked like your tool worked pretty well.

Were the edges fairly even?

How does the total sharpening and polishing time compare with the time you would have spent with your powered sharpening machine?

I love the simplicity of your friction measurement device! But I wonder if relative friction of rough and smooth surfaces is comparable with that tool and rink-temperature ice - partly because ice would deform more. I guess you could try to balance an ice cube of the right temperature on top, and slide it, but that would be very hard to balance. But the vertical force would be much less than the weight of a skater. Doing a really good friction test on an edge would be hard. E.g., you could mount a properly weighted blade on a pivoting device at an angle over the ice. Somewhat like Sydney Broadbent of iceskateology.com did. Probably very expensive to build. I'm sure some people would still find something to complain about the test.

If you talk to many skaters, some, like me, like their blades very sharp, and some don't. But the majority of skate techs do slightly dull the edges after sharpening, like you did, though I've usually seen it done with a flat stone.
42
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by Kaitsu on March 10, 2024, 03:13:44 AM »
And one more note... Edges rounding does not happen evenly. Some areas on the blade does have less rounding than the other. This makes "repairing" with burnishing even more difficult. 
43
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by Kaitsu on March 10, 2024, 03:07:37 AM »
I know that my friction test is far from the perfect. Example plastic piece I used does not contact the edges which are used in the skating. However I didn't have any other ideas how to witness visually the friction reduction with the existing pieces what I had on my hands in that moment. I repeated my non polished / polished test couple times by re-grinding the blade and re-polishing it. This is not shown in the video. 

Paramount skate’s runners side surfaces are presenting me the dream side surfaces. They are plain grind to be flat without any bevel edges, which exists on most of the blades where chrome is removed. I truly hate when side surfaces are beveled / rounded already at the factory. Wilson might be the worst advanced blade manufacturer in this perspective. As I hate this feature so much, I am not going to shape side surfaces with burnishing tool to look like what I criticize.

However, I have lots of experience where skater says that skates are terrible to skate, even they have been recently sharpened (somewhere else). They feel too sharp. When I look the blades, I can feel that they feel extremely sharp when I test them with finger. ROH can be same as I would do, so root cause is not too small ROH. When I have reground the blades, they are happy. In my theory, there are two possible root causes which explains this. In some reason if you use coarse grinding wheel, edges feel sharper than with fine wheel. This is opposite what I could imagine in the first hand. This can explain also why profiler sharpening might feel sharper that what I have experienced with my printed tool. I don't think the printed cylinder is the problem causer in my tests, but I might to clarify this later by machining cylinder from the metal.

Another very plausible root cause for too sharp edges is that skate tech tilts honing stone too much in the deburring phase and/or uses too much force, causing burnishing (deforming) affect. Personally I have always been against the edges deforming. This is just my personal opinion, but I encourage everyone to sketch it to paper what does it mean when side surface is beveled / rounded. Note in your sketch that you are not skating in the way that blade would be in 90 degrees angle to the ice. Edge beveling / rounding issues materializes when you tilt the blade. I might be also wrong in this matter. Maybe this beveled / rounded edge is the "secret" why people like so much from the Wilson blades.
44
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by tstop4me on March 09, 2024, 03:55:45 PM »
Kaitsu,  your conclusion is that your polishing tool reduced friction, but rounded the edges.  There are some details of your friction tests that we could get into, but I don't think those are important.  With respect to the rounding of the edges, what happens if you then use your ultrafine-grit whetstone along the edges (on the sides outside the hollow)?  Does that restore sharp edges?

Alternatively, I had previously given details for burnishing the edges (both inside and outside the hollow).  If you have tight control of ROH, it would be interesting (after grinding and polishing) to burnish the entire hollow, as I discussed previously in

http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8855.0  Reply# 10.

You can 3D print a proper chassis (holder) for the commercial tungsten carbide rod.
45
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by Kaitsu on March 09, 2024, 01:32:32 PM »
Here you can see printed tool in action. https://youtu.be/aVAc4zSBo4M?si=pU46lCWhbRH1-Ifc
46
I get confused easily. I thought it took a year for Harlick customs to be made? Or is this not the custom pair?

Oh… it is still the same custom pair I ordered at the beginning of October 2022.   
I’d have posted photos here already.   ;)  Soon now though!
47
I get confused easily. I thought it took a year for Harlick customs to be made? Or is this not the custom pair?
48
My mother talked to Sophie at Harlick for me yesterday, because I can’t call from here, and my boots are supposed to make it to NY in time.  I’m really excited! 

Hopefully I can break them in enough to wear at the competition, but I’m not sure.  That’s a new experience to me to have brand new boots, and I was told by the fitter to expect a month… back when I was skating many more hours a week than I do now.   :-\  Perhaps I’ll just put them on for photos.   ;D
Coach Cheerful says she’ll help me with the break in during lessons while I’m there.  All I know is to wear them with guards at home, and it seemed like briefly doing some stick & puck was amazing for knee bend.  So, I’ll see if I can do that.


The new dream are skates modelled off of an Edwardian pair of that go farther up the calf and button for the upper half.  Saving up for those, but I guess it’ll be a few years…
49
The Pro Shop / Re: Pro-Filer Redirects to Wissota
« Last post by Query on March 02, 2024, 03:26:37 PM »
Perhaps the woodworking tools I was talking about using, which cost a fewl thousand dollars, are less available without high expense to the average skater than adequate quality 3D printers? Hard core woodworking hobbyists buy such tools, but perhaps few skaters.

I don't know is how accurate the types of 3D printer are that are widely available to the general public in public libraries. The 3D printer I saw used was consistent to a mm or two. But someone said that was poor.

A high end skate blade holder I've seen allowed adjustment of the blade height - which directly affects the centering of the wheel on the hollow - by 1/2000 inch. But I think that is overkill, that the tool need not be shaped that accurately. I doubt woodworking tools could do that well.

I use Pro-Filer by alternating skate or tool orientation every few strokes, to compensate for tool asymmetries and irregularities. And I use enough tape to fit the blade quite snugly, which locks down the geometry, so gravity doesn't matter, and I can hand-hold the tool at any orientation. I think it gives excellent consistent results, by feel, though I don't have the highest accuracy tools to check it.

Using those techniques, would library quality 3D printers do well enough?

Blademaster only offers 2 ROH's, 1/2" and 3/4", and their website suggests both tools are for hockey blades, which are much thinner.

If Kaitsu makes his specification files available to the public, and creates files for many different ROH's, maybe they could go to a public library and make their own tools in the desired ROH, that are good enough, for people who use those techniques. Or he could sell his tools to the general public?

50
Spectator Skating Discussions / Re: LiveBarn video privacy and safety issues
« Last post by AlbaNY on March 02, 2024, 06:26:54 AM »
There was a coach at my old rinks who really complained about it, and she didn’t like my filming very much either.  Otherwise it seemed accepted and even useful if a bit weird when thought about. 

I subscribed and used it to help remember choreography plans or to check on things out of view of my phone, but I did not find it as useful as my friend does.  She uses it all the time to catch clips of herself that she sends to me, some of her coaches, or puts on social media. 
Once it a while we (coach, myself, friend, and rink staff) did use it to eavesdrop on drama or to sort out what happened.  Like, one time a hockey team stole a trophy, and we could pinpoint who did it.

My coach’s mother made a point of watching my lessons and even practicing.  She was cute about it and just enjoyed being able to.

When I tested or competed I hoped to view from LiveBarn, but most of the time it was blacked out.  That really bummed me since I didn’t get to catch my very first competition.   :'(

The rink staff set it to black out the practices and such of certain hockey groups (youth,) and certain other times also out of some of the concerns that you mention.
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