skatingforums
On the Ice => The Pro Shop => Topic started by: jjane45 on August 29, 2012, 09:34:16 PM
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This topic has been brought up recently here (http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=3931.0), and I am hoping to find out more details about the actual decision making process: Should the skater go for new boots ($$ hundreds) or just rebuild the current ones (~$50)? When to do it? How would it affect the fit?
Apparently boot manufacturer or reputable local shoe repair places can rebuild boots to restore the stiffness. I assume the boot manufacturers know what they are doing :) Anyone with first hand experiences about shoe repair places? Is rebuilding leather boots considered a standard service? I mean, handing expensive boots to shops that never handled figure skates could be a bit of suspense! :P
I am happy with my Jackson Competitor boots, feet are no longer growing and jump contents won't change for a long time. They are slowly breaking down though. What factors should I consider between looking for a new (used) pair in the same specs or rebuild? If the decision is to rebuild, is there a preferred "timing" for best results? ASAP? Or boots need to be really worn to rebuild? Any risks involved especially considering fit? Say if some spots were punched out or stretched, would they be affected by rebuilding? :D
There also seems to be different levels of rebuilding, a skate pro shop claims it can "buy a little time until the end of the season, or restore the boots to near-new condition".
Tips and stories please :love:
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Places that I see people mentioning for rebuilding skating boots:
Doubletoe mentioned Willie's (http://www.williesshoeservice.com) in Los Angeles
Rainbo recommends Mont Clair (http://mcshoerepair.com/) in Chicago area
Cooke's Skate Supply (http://www.cookesskatesupply.com/) in MA area
Recent FSU discussion (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3568975#post3568975) starting at post #13
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Klingbeil rebuilds skates for their customers. Don usually advises against a second rebuild, but maybe that's just special denial for his favorite pest. :angel:
I believe C&L Skates in Morris Plains, NJ still does skate rebuilds. There's a limit of two maximum and I think the cost is $50. I was surprised that they still offer the service; I always thought that the late "Uncle" Al Corona handled that part of the business.
I had C&L rebuild my Riedells back in the 1980's, when they were at Sky Rink and later, South Mountain Arena.
The first rebuild was always excellent, the second made the skate too low-cut for my taste.
I turned them into patch boots by having the bottom toepick ground off and the ROH made more shallow.
The one really bad experience I had with rebuilt skates was that the process left beads of hard glue at the top edge of the boot. I ended up with bleeding abrasions on my calf - still have the scar. I finally wised up and used a suede brush to get rid of the glue bits and had no problem with the skates after that.
The process is this:
. Cut open the top of the boot along the stitching.
. Back in the day, this meant removing the stitching. Now, it entails trimming off the top of the boot at the stitching.
. One shop used to open up the entire top of the boot, from the eyelets to the heel strap.
. Another just cut open the boot above the hooks.
. Remove the inside support layers between the outer and inner layers of leather. That may also include the padding.
. Use the removed material to trace and cut new material.
. Restuff the boot
. Glue the layers together
. Stitch along the top to close the seam permanently.
It felt like a different boot after it was rebuilt once and I never liked the second rebuild, even if it was just for figures.
On my original Riedells, I would get maybe six months out of a pair of Gold Stars before I needed a rebuild. The rebuilt skates only lasted about 3 months before they started feeling too-soft. I think it's because the remaining leather had lost its stiffness by that time.
I switched to Klingbeils because I was spending a lot of money on skates and rebuilds with Riedell. My first pair of Klingbeils lasted many years before needing to be rebuilt. I actually outgrew them after I had my twins.
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I had Riedell rebuild an eight-year-old pair of Silver boots once because the sole rotted out and my blade ripped out while I was skating. The boots that came back were like a brand-new pair, refinished inside and out, but they fit marvelously and lasted another five years. All it cost me was the shipping to Riedell, because they said the sole failed because of "bad leather." :)
I'm not hard on my boots, though. Blades, yes, but not boots.
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BTW, when Don Klingbeil rebuilt mine, I had to re-stretch everything to make it fit again.
I don't think I'd trust a skate to a non-skate shoe repair person, if I had a choice. They don't understand how stiff skates need to be. The boot maker has experience rebuilding skates. But that's me.
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Thanks everyone :love:
How much does it generally cost to send the boots back to manufacturers? Turnaround time? I hear Riedell and Klingbeil mentioned, does Jackson or SP-Teri also do offer rebuilding service? Can Edea boots be rebuilt at all?
Our pro shop experts recommended the local shoe repair shop, so I guess they must know the basics at least, like what stiffness rating a certain major brand's model has. But yeah, I'd certainly be concerned if the shop had zero prior experience with figure skates.
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Great thread! Thanks for sharing everyone!
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When skates are rebuilt, they add an extra layer of leather on each side of the boot, and that does end up making them a tiny bit tighter.
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Montclare does a marvelous job. Everyone I know that has had a rebuild here has had him do them.
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Well I guess it's time for me to rebuild those beat-up Jackson competitor boots now, although I just discovered my blade have only a tiny bit of sharpening life left.
Looking for more comments on the opening post. Would it take the approximately the same amount time to break in rebuilt skates compared to brand new skates? Many thanks!
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I'm not an expert or anything but it was my understanding that a rebuild just eeks out a little more life... ie: a skater with a test or competition coming up and no time to break in skates. I don't think it's meant to be a long term solution. Yes, it's only $50 - but is it $50 well spent? Would that $50 be better spent if invested in new skates? I guess the answer depends on your reasons for the rebuild. And I guess how long the rebuild would last would depend on the level of skating. I'd contact the manufacturer and have a discussion about it.
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I had Montcllare rebuild my Riedell 2010LS boots and they seem to have done quite a good job. They did require breaking in again, which makes sense to me given that the padding has been replaced. Only been a couple of weeks since I started skating in them again, so can't yet speak about the duration of the work (but the boots broke down in the first place after only 6 1/2 months, so if I can get even three months out of the rebuild, I will be happy).
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Yes, it's only $50 - but is it $50 well spent? Would that $50 be better spent if invested in new skates?
I agree... and having seen pictures of your boots, I'm not sure they are really the sort of thing a rebuild can address. I think it's probably wise to invest in a new(er) pair of boots.
I have never had a pair of boots rebuilt... I'm not sure I ever will. When I wear them out, I get a new pair.
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I have heard that a rebuild will last about a year and that your skates will be tighter when you get them because they have added an extra layer of leather... this is back when boots were real leather without all of the extra thick padding that we see now.
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I agree... and having seen pictures of your boots, I'm not sure they are really the sort of thing a rebuild can address.
would you kindly elaborate what issues do you see? when I talked to my sharpener last time, he said the boots can benefit from a rebuild, but he was too busy to talk more about cost benefit. I'm all ears, thank you so much!
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The outer leather cracking... usually a boot rebuild has to do with replacing the inner layers and lining, so if you did have them rebuilt, the outer leather will remain, and I would worry about the remaining lifespan of the outer leather. I guess what is the benefit of rebuilding vs buying new boots? Is it just cost, or do you have other concerns as well?
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I guess what is the benefit of rebuilding vs buying new boots? Is it just cost, or do you have other concerns as well?
both. I got the boots to work and hesitate to dive into something completely new. there is also some (not a lot) life left in my blades, and it seems like a good idea to give the boots a little more life to match the blades.
The outer leather cracking... usually a boot rebuild has to do with replacing the inner layers and lining, so if you did have them rebuilt, the outer leather will remain, and I would worry about the remaining lifespan of the outer leather.
Thank you very much, I will visit the shoe repair shop and ask about the outer leather :)
also I think I'll mostly do moves and dance, with little spins and jumps, hope it's easier on the boots. more comments truly appreciated :)
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also I think I'll mostly do moves and dance, with little spins and jumps, hope it's easier on the boots. more comments truly appreciated :)
My comment about hearing that rebuilds last about a year was from an ice-dancer perspective.
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it seems like a good idea to give the boots a little more life to match the blades.
If you're not changing sizes, you can keep the blades! Even if the model you wear is usually sold as a set, you can usually purchase just the boot.
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If you're not changing sizes, you can keep the blades! Even if the model you wear is usually sold as a set, you can usually purchase just the boot.
the blades would need to be remounted to the new boots (it took a few tries due to pronation), and I thought why all the hassle if there is not too much sharpening life left?
but then I may face adjusting to new boots and new blades at the same time... at least I'll try to keep everything in the same model.
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There also seems to be different levels of rebuilding, a skate pro shop claims it can "buy a little time until the end of the season, or restore the boots to near-new condition".
I talked to my local shoe repair that everyone recommends, and they have 3 stiffness levels, they recommend medium.
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I actually like my boots soft and broken down - I'm not really jumping much, and for low level ice dance, as long as they don't fold over, and I can still control the blades by aligning my ankle, stiffness isn't a problem. I don't want to reduce my range of motion in any way, just slow down the sideways bending a bit. So I continue to use broken down boots.
A manufacturer rebuild (at least from Klingbeil), as I understand it, consists of ripping apart the upper part of the boot at its seams, completely replacing the stuff in between the inner and outer leather layers as far down as they can easily reach, including pretty much everything that gives boots their stiffness, and re-sewing the seams. So if a loss of stiffness, and/or maybe the formation of a crease that would be fixed by stiffening is the problem, a rebuild is an excellent long term solution. But they only rebuild the top of the boot, down to a little below where breakdown creases usually form. They don't modify the lower part of the boot - such as the toe box, or near the insole, or the part of the boot significantly beyond the front of your leg, because it would be too much work.
So, look at what is breaking down. If the seams are falling apart, it is a lost cause. If the problem is the lower part of the boots, it is a lost cause. (Exception: if the heel is starting to detach, that is separately fixable, and doesn't need a rebuild. Likewise, insoles are easily replaced.) But otherwise, if stiffening the upper part of the boot (such as where the "breakdown crease" usually forms) would fix all problems, a full manufacturer rebuild should be almost like a new pair of boots. They may not look new - but they will feel new, and should last nearly as long.
(However - if all your shoe store wants to do is to glue in a stiffening layer inside the boots, without tearing apart the seams and replacing the insides - that probably won't do as much. And if they aren't careful to "feather" (thin to nothingness) the edges of that layer, so you have an abrupt edge at the edges of that layer, it will be very uncomfortable._
All modern upper level figure skating boots (by which I mean boots that have an inner leather layer for comfort, an outer leather layer for looks and lacing, and one or more super-stiff layers of something in between that are the heart and sole of the boot), are much stiffer than any other type of shoe I know of (except downhill ski boots). So I'm not sure an ordinary shoe store would know what to use to replace the insides with that is stiff enough to do the job, especially if you ever jump. Unless they've worked on upper level skates before. Also, what they use might not be heat mold-able.
To ponder: Many serious skaters spend a lot more money on lessons, driving, ice time, blades(including sharpening), tests and comps than on boots. Maybe new boots are worth it, if they make you happier?
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I got the boots rebuilt today, $65 same day pick up. They came back um... looking stiff without the previous ankle crease. Wearing them at home, can't tell much difference yet. For the punched-out areas, ball of foot and heel remain intact but ankles are affected. (If I understand correctly about 3" wide area on the sides got rebuilt.) I will report back on how they feel like on ice.
To ponder: Many serious skaters spend a lot more money on lessons, driving, ice time, blades(including sharpening), tests and comps than on boots. Maybe new boots are worth it, if they make you happier?
I hate to dispose of things with residual value unless someone else can use them properly. As long as safety / comfort / performance are not compromised, I try to make maximum use of everything. (grrrr I have this weird habit of making old computers work for friends...)
Also think why do people recycle?
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I hate to dispose of things with residual value unless someone else can use them properly. As long as safety / comfort / performance are not compromised, I try to make maximum use of everything.
I don't have a problem with that, but I think of shoes/boots as having a limited lifespan - they're like tires. You wouldn't keep using a set of tires with no tread left just because they still hold air - you'd replace them.
I think there is a really limited capacity for repairing boots - for me, as long as I can afford to replace them, that's the route I'll take. I've really only seen rebuilds done at my rink in situations where the skater can't afford another pair of boots... it's done simply to buy some extra time before they absolutely have to be replaced.
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Hope it works!
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Harlick does a nice rebuild; price is great, turnaround time around 3-5 days. A fraction of the price of replacing a pair of boots, and, they'll also "up" the stiffness if you need it in addition to the basic rebuild. If you figure that a pair of custom costs around $800, and a rebuild is $100 - then, if you get an additional year out of a pair of boots ... $$$$$ saved.
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I don't have a problem with that, but I think of shoes/boots as having a limited lifespan - they're like tires. You wouldn't keep using a set of tires with no tread left just because they still hold air - you'd replace them.
I think there is a really limited capacity for repairing boots - for me, as long as I can afford to replace them, that's the route I'll take. I've really only seen rebuilds done at my rink in situations where the skater can't afford another pair of boots... it's done simply to buy some extra time before they absolutely have to be replaced.
Thanks for your concern, I truly appreciate it :) :) I want status quo provided safety and performance are not compromised... Both the pro shop and shoe repair thought the rest of the boots are in OK shape and can benefit from a rebuild, so I'm giving it a try. I have quite a few friends who got our more years from their rebuilds, but I'd be happy if it gets me an additional year.
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OK first outing after the rebuild, I expected to limp off the ice but found myself quite comfortable in these boots. Hurting somewhat on the inside of my feet after skating, but does not feel like much break-in is needed. Will have to see if I survive dance lesson where full speed is expected.
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Skating buddy's boots were literally dying and just got them rebuilt as well for $110 (rebuild sides + tongue replacement). According to her there is some serious adjustment going on. Makes me wonder if I am THAT oblivious to changes in equipment condition, sigh.
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I think it depends on the condition of the boots before the rebuild. Maybe your rebuilt boots are more similar to your original ones, hence the easy adjustment?
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Resuscitating an old thread.
Wanted to provide my last word on my experience with using Mont Clare to rebuild by LS2010's. They had severely broken down in about 6 1/2 months when I acquired them.
Mont Clare repaired them within a week, used some extra firm padding. They lasted about 14 months and had not yet broken down (but were getting close to doing so). The stitching was beginning to fray and then an eyelet was torn.
I have another pair of skates, so I will just switch over to those. To some extent as an experiment, I am going to send the boots back to Mont Clare and ask them to repair the stitching and the eyelet and to preemptively rebuild them again. When I finally get around to using them, I will be able to find out if a second rebuild is possible.
Certainly, a satisfactory experience with Mont Clare and the concept of a rebuild.
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Here is my boot rebuilding saga.
I have been wearing Risport RF2 boots. They cost $600 in Australia. They are made in Italy and I bought my first pair in Philadelphia and my second pair in Sydney. Since they have been breaking down rather quickly, I decided to get the first pair rebuilt at Mont Clare Shoe Repair in Chicago. The first pair had issues with pain in the front of the first metatarsal bone on the inside of the foot before they were rebuilt, and with rubbing at the ankle. The second pair had issues with the boot tongue sliding down, crushing my toes, despite using the loop to hold the tongue up. However, both pairs fit a lot better than the Jacksons I used previously.
I got my rebuilt first pair of boots back after several months. I sent them via Auspost with the cheapest shipping and received them via Shopmate. By that point my second pair had broken down so that I did not feel very safe jumping in them. A local blade technician put the blades back on the boots without trouble.
The boots were rebuilt "as stiff as possible." Several coaches told me they wouldn't attempt to skate in boots that stiff. The break-in was more difficult than new boots. I heat molded the boots several times. I had to tape my feet because boots rubbed where the additional stiff material made them narrower than they were before.
On the whole I would call the rebuild a success because it was less than half the cost of new, and I won the national championships in the rebuilt boots. The boots are the right stiffness for me. The tongue does not slide down. However, I continue to have issues because the boots hurt on the edge of where the new material was installed. It's a bit pointy at the edges. This is most noticeable where the rear of the fifth metatarsal bone sticks out on the outside of my left foot. I also have pain because the boot is pressing down on the tendon at the base of my right big toe. However, this appears to be unrelated to the rebuild.
I have sent my second pair for rebuilding.
I talked to the Australian Risport distributor about buying a new pair, but they told me my boots were not broken down yet. I'm not sure why they think they can tell without touching the boots.
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Did you get them rebuilt directly at risport???
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Did you get them rebuilt directly at risport???
No. Is that really an option? I assumed Risport would not want to rebuild boots when they can sell new ones at 5 times the price.
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Riedell will rebuild boots or at least used too, as will (I think) Harlick. I'm really tempted to call up Risport and see if they can do split widths. I figure if they do rebuilding, perhaps they're open to semi-customs. The Jackson folks on this side of the pond drop the ball each and every time I ask about split widths. My Risports fit OK after punching out (in the US!) and odd lacing over the ball. Could be very acceptable if they can open up the ball (on their C width!!) and narrow down the heel a smidge at the same time. I just don't know how their English is, and me no speaky italian so I've been procrastinating. They're the best fit out of the box for me over here. It's getting close to skate time I think and I'm dreading the whole thing, especially now that Jackson has messed with their boots/lasts, and I was fitted 4 years ago. I go to the US this summer though, so that's the opportunity, if I can get sized and the order in from over here.....
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Why have a long discussion here about whether Risport does custom fits or rebuilds boots, when you can ask the company itself?
http://www.risport.com/contacts gives email info@risport.it, and phone +39 0423 616611
The company is in Italy, so I can't guarantee they have a customer representative who converses in English or French - but they probably do, because they have dealers and therefore customers in many countries, including yours. Send pictures of your boots in the email, so they can guess whether they are too broken down. If they don't respond try a local dealer at http://www.risport.com/dealers.
Since my own experiences with Risport were with single layer slightly used leather boots that only lasted me a week or two, I haven't bothered figuring out what they do, or including them in my web page list of boot makers. (They are in skatingforum.com's list.) But it would be hard to imagine that any respectable skate boot company wouldn't do rebuilds and some sort of custom fit, especially one like Risport that claims high level athletes (http://www.risport.com/champions) in their stable.
I'd be curious of the answer.
Have any of you ordered custom boots from them, and liked the boots and the customer service? If so, I'll add them to my list.
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Why have a long discussion here about whether Risport does custom fits or rebuilds boots, when you can ask the company itself?
They answered my query about which boots I should buy next, but they ignored me when I asked if they rebuild boots.
Companies that sell new stuff do not usually encourage repairs.
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They answered my query about which boots I should buy next, but they ignored me when I asked if they rebuild boots.
Companies that sell new stuff do not usually encourage repairs.
That hasn't been my personal experience with skate boot companies. All the company reps I have talked to have been very proud of their customer service for people who have bought their products.
I once went to a competition which had a lot of vender tables just to talk to boot company reps. All the reps I asked said they rebuild boots. I don't remember all the ones I asked, but I didn't ask Risport, because they weren't there.
Did you call, or just email? Sure, if you call, you might not reach someone who speaks English, but with cheap Internet calls through tools like Skype, its not a big deal even if you fail.
At many companies, service and support is done by different people than sales. Perhaps you reached a sales person.
But of course it is entirely up to you whether you want to call the company.